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Anyone have an answer? my 89 f250 with a 460 and 5 speed ping pretty bad when towing or not. i have replaced the inline pump with a hipo (to no avail) and also one of the low psi in tank pumps. it has an adjustable fuel pressure reg in it. even adjusting up or down there is no difference. timing has a very minor effect on this also. when i tow i run premimum and sometimes even a octane booster. this does help but not completely. after leaving california on a trip the problem got a lot better, maybe due to the non oxyegenated fuel. any help or guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.
My '90 Ford F-250 with 460 cid and 5 speed has pinging problems as well. With the warmer summer temps, and hauling a load, it will begin to ping on grades. It seems that the more it pings, the more the engine temp goes up. Then, the more the engine temp goes up, then more pinging occurs--a vicious circle. Josh, did you ever get to the bottom of the problem?
Anyone have an answer? my 89 f250 with a 460 and 5 speed ping pretty bad when towing or not. i have replaced the inline pump with a hipo (to no avail) and also one of the low psi in tank pumps. it has an adjustable fuel pressure reg in it. even adjusting up or down there is no difference. timing has a very minor effect on this also. when i tow i run premimum and sometimes even a octane booster. this does help but not completely. after leaving california on a trip the problem got a lot better, maybe due to the non oxyegenated fuel. any help or guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.
I had a chevy that did that too. It turned out to be a MAPP sensor. Then I had a '93 F-150 that did the same thing. That one turned out to be a fuel pressure regulator. I had a 93 Explorer that did the same thing. I can't remember what the fix was, but it was something to do with the smog control on it (MAPP, regulator, oxygen sensor, et.al.), but it was something to do with the smog controls.
Anyone have an answer? my 89 f250 with a 460 and 5 speed ping pretty bad when towing or not. i have replaced the inline pump with a hipo (to no avail) and also one of the low psi in tank pumps. it has an adjustable fuel pressure reg in it. even adjusting up or down there is no difference. timing has a very minor effect on this also. when i tow i run premimum and sometimes even a octane booster. this does help but not completely. after leaving california on a trip the problem got a lot better, maybe due to the non oxyegenated fuel. any help or guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.
Josh, gotta agree with you, our gasoline is pretty lousy, but it's not the problem. Your vehicle is equipped with Ford's EEC-lV engine control system. As you noticed when you were moving the distributor, it has no vacuum hose going to it. If you looked inside of it, you wouldn't find any advance mechanisms of any type. That's because the ignition timing is controlled by the computer, and is adjusted to engine conditions depending on information recieved by the computer from various sensors. One of these sensors is the KS, or Knock Sensor, a nifty little unit that screws into the engine and detects the vibrations in the engine caused by predetonation of the air/fuel charge in the cylinders. This sensor contains a piezoelectric crystal that converts the vibrations into an electrical current that flows to the computer. The computer, acting on this information, starts retarding the spark in 5 degree increments until it is no longer receiving input from the KS, at which time it starts advancing the spark in 5 degree increments until it again receives input from the KS. All this happens very rapidly. When the system is operating correctly all you should hear is an occasional single "ping" or two. There is no trouble code set in the computer for a failed KS or it's wiring. The test for it is simple. Connect a timing light to the engine, bring the engine up to a hot idle, and while looking at the timing marks, rap on the engine with a hammer, that's rap, not pound, and you should see the timing retard.If the timing doesn't retard, then it's the sensor or it's wiring, or remote possibility is the computer's inability to act on the sensor's input. Let us know what you find. BTW, high octane gasoline just burns slower, that's why it controls detonation, it doesn't contain any more "umph" than the gasoline specified for your engine, (87-89 octane), but costs a lot more.
Anyone have an answer? my 89 f250 with a 460 and 5 speed ping pretty bad when towing or not. i have replaced the inline pump with a hipo (to no avail) and also one of the low psi in tank pumps. it has an adjustable fuel pressure reg in it. even adjusting up or down there is no difference. timing has a very minor effect on this also. when i tow i run premimum and sometimes even a octane booster. this does help but not completely. after leaving california on a trip the problem got a lot better, maybe due to the non oxyegenated fuel. any help or guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.
I should add here that pinging without a "check engine" light coming on, can also be caused by a plugged, not failed, EGR system, failure of the EGR sensor, or non-movement of the EGR valve pintle will set a trouble code in the computer and turn the "check engine" light on. I'm assuming the rig is registered in CA, and so is subject to the Smog Check Program. The EGR system is tested at each biennial inspection. Based on how long this pinging has been going on, and the date of your last inspection, would tell you if the EGR system may be at fault or not.
Don't know if this is applicable to the 460 or not but my Explorer recently had the same problem and it turned out to be the MAFS (Mass Air Flow Sensor). Just needed cleaning and the problem went away.
anyone have an answer? my 89 f250 with a 460 and 5 speed ping pretty bad when towing or not. i have replaced the inline pump with a hipo (to no avail) and also one of the low psi in tank pumps. it has an adjustable fuel pressure reg in it. even adjusting up or down there is no difference. timing has a very minor effect on this also. when i tow i run premimum and sometimes even a octane booster. this does help but not completely. after leaving california on a trip the problem got a lot better, maybe due to the non oxyegenated fuel. any help or guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.
Unfortunately Alan the 89 F/I 460 did not come with a mass air meter. although maybe if it had one then it would be the problem. i appreciate your taking the time to send a response....thanks again....Josh Don't know if this is applicable to the 460 or not but my Explorer recently had the same problem and it turned out to be the MAFS (Mass Air Flow Sensor). Just needed cleaning and the problem went away.
anyone have an answer? my 89 f250 with a 460 and 5 speed ping pretty bad when towing or not. i have replaced the inline pump with a hipo (to no avail) and also one of the low psi in tank pumps. it has an adjustable fuel pressure reg in it. even adjusting up or down there is no difference. timing has a very minor effect on this also. when i tow i run premimum and sometimes even a octane booster. this does help but not completely. after leaving california on a trip the problem got a lot better, maybe due to the non oxyegenated fuel. any help or guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.
Anyone have an answer? my 89 f250 with a 460 and 5 speed ping pretty bad when towing or not. i have replaced the inline pump with a hipo (to no avail) and also one of the low psi in tank pumps. it has an adjustable fuel pressure reg in it. even adjusting up or down there is no difference. timing has a very minor effect on this also. when i tow i run premimum and sometimes even a octane booster. this does help but not completely. after leaving california on a trip the problem got a lot better, maybe due to the non oxyegenated fuel. any help or guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.
I should add here that pinging without a "check engine" light coming on, can also be caused by a plugged, not failed, EGR system, failure of the EGR sensor, or non-movement of the EGR valve pintle will set a trouble code in the computer and turn the "check engine" light on. I'm assuming the rig is registered in CA, and so is subject to the Smog Check Program. The EGR system is tested at each biennial inspection. Based on how long this pinging has been going on, and the date of your last inspection, would tell you if the EGR system may be at fault or not.
thanks for responding Kent. the rig is registered in ut but is driven in cali. the last smog test (about one year ago) said it was running very good. although when it was cold at night (very cold) the check engine light would come on. when i retreived the code it said the tps voltage was out of parameters. when i checked it with a volt meter it was ok(if i remember right about .94 at the wire) maybe i should go back and mess with this and see if that fixes my problem. i have a book on the truck but do you have a quick check i can perform on the egr system? or if not then what specific items should i check that might cause it to ping? and why would they maybe cause it to ping? i dont understand what ford did to this motor that causes it to ping so bad. it is not like it has a ton of compression. and are you referring to the pintle that moves with the heat of the motor kind of shaped like a bullet? thanks for responding and any other info is greatly appreciated
Anyone have an answer? my 89 f250 with a 460 and 5 speed ping pretty bad when towing or not. i have replaced the inline pump with a hipo (to no avail) and also one of the low psi in tank pumps. it has an adjustable fuel pressure reg in it. even adjusting up or down there is no difference. timing has a very minor effect on this also. when i tow i run premimum and sometimes even a octane booster. this does help but not completely. after leaving california on a trip the problem got a lot better, maybe due to the non oxyegenated fuel. any help or guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.
I should add here that pinging without a "check engine" light coming on, can also be caused by a plugged, not failed, EGR system, failure of the EGR sensor, or non-movement of the EGR valve pintle will set a trouble code in the computer and turn the "check engine" light on. I'm assuming the rig is registered in CA, and so is subject to the Smog Check Program. The EGR system is tested at each biennial inspection. Based on how long this pinging has been going on, and the date of your last inspection, would tell you if the EGR system may be at fault or not.
thanks for responding Kent. the rig is registered in ut but is driven in cali. the last smog test (about one year ago) said it was running very good. although when it was cold at night (very cold) the check engine light would come on. when i retreived the code it said the tps voltage was out of parameters. when i checked it with a volt meter it was ok(if i remember right about .94 at the wire) maybe i should go back and mess with this and see if that fixes my problem. i have a book on the truck but do you have a quick check i can perform on the egr system? or if not then what specific items should i check that might cause it to ping? and why would they maybe cause it to ping? i dont understand what ford did to this motor that causes it to ping so bad. it is not like it has a ton of compression. thanks for responding and any other info is greatly appreciated
Anyone have an answer? my 89 f250 with a 460 and 5 speed ping pretty bad when towing or not. i have replaced the inline pump with a hipo (to no avail) and also one of the low psi in tank pumps. it has an adjustable fuel pressure reg in it. even adjusting up or down there is no difference. timing has a very minor effect on this also. when i tow i run premimum and sometimes even a octane booster. this does help but not completely. after leaving california on a trip the problem got a lot better, maybe due to the non oxyegenated fuel. any help or guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.
I had a chevy that did that too. It turned out to be a MAPP sensor. Then I had a '93 F-150 that did the same thing. That one turned out to be a fuel pressure regulator. I had a 93 Explorer that did the same thing. I can't remember what the fix was, but it was something to do with the smog control on it (MAPP, regulator, oxygen sensor, et.al.), but it was something to do with the smog controls.
thanks Jack for your response. the ford 460 this year did not have a mass air meter. also i have replaced the fuel pressure regulator with an adjustable one to no avail. thanks again for your time
Anyone have an answer? my 89 f250 with a 460 and 5 speed ping pretty bad when towing or not.
the 460 doesn't have a knock sensor. Even the fords that do, I have never seen a bad one on a ford. Pinging is most likely caused by the timing not being set right. Second choice is the EGR system isn't working right. A further point I don't understand is the part about it having an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. The fuel injected engine does not have an adjustable regulator it is only controlled by engine vacuum.
Anyone have an answer? my 89 f250 with a 460 and 5 speed ping pretty bad when towing or not. i have replaced the inline pump with a hipo (to no avail) and also one of the low psi in tank pumps. it has an adjustable fuel pressure reg in it. even adjusting up or down there is no difference. timing has a very minor effect on this also. when i tow i run premimum and sometimes even a octane booster. this does help but not completely. after leaving california on a trip the problem got a lot better, maybe due to the non oxyegenated fuel. any help or guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.
Kent, thanks for the input. i am glad i have received quite a bit of response to this. i am actually quite good with the ford EEC IV system having owned a mustang around the same year and performing all the many mods myself. i heard that the knock sensor might be at fault but i have yet to locate it. and the response a little later confirms this. i know of at least 4 other people that have this same problem with their trucks. it really seems to be the 5 speeds and not so much the autos. right now i have bought a complete exhaust from the headers to muffler from Mac that i am going to put on it and we'll see what happens with that. when i pull my 29' kit 5th wheel in Ca i have to run premium to fend off the ping. as soon as i got out of Ca last year (going to Wy) i was able to run 87 octane without a pinging problem at all. very seldom did it ping during that trip. it runs pretty cool maybe 190 to 205 due to the huge radiator i have in it, even up the big hills. again the timing makes no difference. this is the only thing i have ever owned that still pings at 4 degrees btdc. hmmm? it does not have a mass air meter on it. i am not sure when ford put that set up on their 460's. i think in 96. i have thought about trying to convert it over but i need better info as to the years. i know of a conversion kit but it cost about 1000.00. i converted my 87 mustang gt to maf so i am sure i can do this for pretty cheap if i can get the years of fords maf for the 460. again thanks for your help. if you have any other questions or any other help send a reply to this.....Josh
Anyone have an answer? my 89 f250 with a 460 and 5 speed ping pretty bad when towing or not. i have replaced the inline pump with a hipo (to no avail) and also one of the low psi in tank pumps. it has an adjustable fuel pressure reg in it. even adjusting up or down there is no difference. timing has a very minor effect on this also. when i tow i run premimum and sometimes even a octane booster. this does help but not completely. after leaving california on a trip the problem got a lot better, maybe due to the non oxyegenated fuel. any help or guidance on this would be greatly appreciated.
Anyone have an answer? my 89 f250 with a 460 and 5 speed ping pretty bad when towing or not.
the 460 doesn't have a knock sensor. Even the fords that do, I have never seen a bad one on a ford. Pinging is most likely caused by the timing not being set right. Second choice is the EGR system isn't working right. A further point I don't understand is the part about it having an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. The fuel injected engine does not have an adjustable regulator it is only controlled by engine vacuum.
Russel, you're correct, the 460 lacks a KS. Under the rationalization that the wrong advice is useless and only adds to the problem, I deem it best that I cease posting to this board. I trust that you will take the time and trouble to grace this board with the benefit of your wisdom and experience.
Anyone have an answer? my 89 f250 with a 460 and 5 speed ping pretty bad when towing or not.
the 460 doesn't have a knock sensor. Even the fords that do, I have never seen a bad one on a ford. Pinging is most likely caused by the timing not being set right. Second choice is the EGR system isn't working right. A further point I don't understand is the part about it having an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. The fuel injected engine does not have an adjustable regulator it is only controlled by engine vacuum.
thankyou russel for your response. you have answered a question i have had trouble finding. a knock sensor or not. i have performed quite a bit of work on the ford eec IV system on a mustang i had. the F/I systems used (EEC IV) are about identical on these motors 88-93 and then some. trying to pick up some horsepower i put a vortech adjustable fuel pressure regulator on the 460 (just like my 302 in the mustang). i also put a fuel psi guage on it . i have adjusted this without any improvement. i could put 65 psi to the injectors without any change in the pinging problem. the timing is set where it should be. also any change in this has very little affect. again this is the only thing t=i have seen that at 4 degreees btdc still pings. it could be at 10 degrees atdc and still ping. i am sure there is a problem with this setup from ford that can be fixed pretty easy. just finding out how is the key. what should i check out in the egr system? i can promise all other things are good like fuel psi and the timing (anywhere from 8 deg to 12 deg wtih the spout disconnected) thankyou agian for responding russel. any other help is appreciated. i am sure with everyones help we will find the culprit and help out a few other folks. i used to run my F/I 302 with 10:1 comp at 14 deg btdc and 160 horsepower on nitrous without a single ping. sounds like some flaw in the system. thanks again....Josh
Russel, you're correct, the 460 lacks a KS. Under the rationalization that the wrong advice is useless and only adds to the problem, I deem it best that I cease posting to this board. I trust that you will take the time and trouble to grace this board with the benefit of your wisdom and experience.
Your information was correct and a pretty thorough description of knock sensor operation. I'm sure it will help others have a better understanding of what they deal with. I had to think about it, and then get out my wiring diagrams to make sure about the 460 not having one. It is very hard to formulate helpful information when the request for help leave out so much. The original post on this thread sounds to me like he has a carburated engine or a John Deere chassis but he says its a "F" 250. soooooo who knows ?!?!?!
Anyone have an answer? my 89 f250 with a 460 and 5 speed ping pretty bad when towing or not.
the 460 doesn't have a knock sensor. Even the fords that do, I have never seen a bad one on a ford. Pinging is most likely caused by the timing not being set right. Second choice is the EGR system isn't working right. A further point I don't understand is the part about it having an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. The fuel injected engine does not have an adjustable regulator it is only controlled by engine vacuum.
Russel, you're correct, the 460 lacks a KS. Under the rationalization that the wrong advice is useless and only adds to the problem, I deem it best that I cease posting to this board. I trust that you will take the time and trouble to grace this board with the benefit of your wisdom and experience.
kent, i again thankyou for your time. i thought this had a ks too, and only with a few unsucessful trips to the dealer did i realize there is no ks. any other help you can provide is appreciated...thankyou again for your time....Josh
Russel, you're correct, the 460 lacks a KS. Under the rationalization that the wrong advice is useless and only adds to the problem, I deem it best that I cease posting to this board. I trust that you will take the time and trouble to grace this board with the benefit of your wisdom and experience.
Your information was correct and a pretty thorough description of knock sensor operation. I'm sure it will help others have a better understanding of what they deal with. I had to think about it, and then get out my wiring diagrams to make sure about the 460 not having one. It is very hard to formulate helpful information when the request for help leave out so much. The original post on this thread sounds to me like he has a carburated engine or a John Deere chassis but he says its a "F" 250. soooooo who knows ?!?!?!
No Russel, it is not a JD although if it was maybe i would not have these problems. it is indeed a F/I 460. i think i would know the difference. anyway i think ford only made these in 1987 with a few trickiling over to 1988. (a carb and that body style) and no i have never heard of these pinging. again it seems that these things (f/i 460)ping with the 5 speed and not so much the automatic. when i say ping, it will ping in 3rd gear, empty getting on the freeway. with my 5th wheel it just compounds the problem. if i can keep the revs above 2500 and half throttle then it is not so much noticable. i dont know about you but i dont like to have drive around with only half throttle. in cali, premium and NOS octane booster help this quite a bit. and by the way this is the very best octane booster on the market-bar none. i figure i have run this at 95 to 97 octane and the problem is soooo much better although still barely there. you and i both know know while towing a trailer getting 8 mpg running premium (1.80$) and NOS booster
at 6.99$ per tank can get very expensive. thankyou for your help. if you have questions about my set up then let me know and i will tell you. thankyou russel for your time. it is appreciated very much....Josh
Russel, you're correct, the 460 lacks a KS. Under the rationalization that the wrong advice is useless and only adds to the problem, I deem it best that I cease posting to this board. I trust that you will take the time and trouble to grace this board with the benefit of your wisdom and experience.
Your information was correct and a pretty thorough description of knock sensor operation. I'm sure it will help others have a better understanding of what they deal with. I had to think about it, and then get out my wiring diagrams to make sure about the 460 not having one. It is very hard to formulate helpful information when the request for help leave out so much. The original post on this thread sounds to me like he has a carburated engine or a John Deere chassis but he says its a "F" 250. soooooo who knows ?!?!?!
No Russel, it is not a JD although if it was maybe i would not have these problems. it is indeed a F/I 460. i think i would know the difference. anyway i think ford only made these in 1987 with a few trickiling over to 1988. (a carb and that body style) and no i have never heard of these pinging. again it seems that these things (f/i 460)ping with the 5 speed and not so much the automatic. when i say ping, it will ping in 3rd gear, empty getting on the freeway. with my 5th wheel it just compounds the problem. if i can keep the revs above 2500 and half throttle then it is not so much noticable. i dont know about you but i dont like to have drive around with only half throttle. in cali, premium and NOS octane booster help this quite a bit. and by the way this is the very best octane booster on the market-bar none. i figure i have run this at 95 to 97 octane and the problem is soooo much better although still barely there. you and i both know know while towing a trailer getting 8 mpg running premium (1.80$) and NOS booster
at 6.99$ per tank can get very expensive. thankyou for your help. if you have questions about my set up then let me know and i will tell you. thankyou russel for your time. it is appreciated very much....Josh
Hello,
After reading about your problems with engine pinging it reminded me of a car I use to own a few years ago that had a pinging problem untill the day I sold it. It was a 1977 pinto with a 2.8 liter V6 engine. Over the years I did a lot of maintenance and none of it helped with the pinging which included replacing the carburetor, EGR valve, smog pump and airdiverter valves Distributor and vacuum advance, (tried several timing adjustments at different degrees), new fuel pumps, I rebuilt the engine at 100k miles, you name it I did it and the only thing that seemed to help was premium octane gas.
Also I noticed that the cooler weather stopped the pinging which I think gives a hint of what might be the problem to someone that would know the answer. With it being a 1977 vehicle there was no computer but there was a lot of smog pump equipment and I had some problems passing emissions.
My only guess is that it had something to do with the smog equipment that caused the pinging. And after reading about your 460 ford engine I would say it might be the smog equipment that is the problem on your vehicle. from Dwight
GOOD LUCK!!!
After 4 years owning a 91 250 truck with an efi 460 in it, I cannot find anyone out there whose 7.5 runs right.(I talked to a dozen owners). I tried timing settings all over the place and either got pinging or dangerously sluggish and 5mpg. CAM2 race gas would help but the power was like my 302efi truck, still. I suspected mixture, so I brought the MAP sensor hose passing through the dash and tried blocking and/or bleeding with needle valves--only bogging or smoking black resulted. I am going to the cam timing next(?) Stock fuel systems let out a good bog and backfire if I W.O.T. the motor over 2 sec, but in the meanwhile the fuel rail reads 40 psi until then. I see this whole mess as Ford never did their homework on engineering the 88-96 7.5 truck. I am hard pressed to find ones in the wrecking yards that are not burned by fire underghood totally. The engine runs a 900+ degreesC egt at 60 mph on a 3.54 gear with a C6 trans.(I probed both manifolds to dash gauges) This truck has almost 5,200 miles on it as I am afaid to run it anywhere but small local trips since the NEW motor in 1999 went in.(It was a 302). Ford has been not only of no help, but defiant, so I ignore them as a resource. Two dealers even denied the existence of a 460 with efi, and corporate was not worth asking, as they said they did not stand behind this motor. Apparently it is not even a safe motor for buses and ambulances through the 1990's. One thing I will soon do is to switch to a complete MSD ignition system and let the TACH terminal on the MSD drive the efi via a 100K resistor. This PIP wire shows a 12volt square wave to ground on my oscilloscope with a probe in the TFI connector. At least the timing will be under the control of a real distributor with advance(I yanked the SpOut connector-yellow/pin36ecm wire, to deny the ecm control of timing) It threw no codes on a recent test drive doing this... I put my scanner on the ecm and see lean and rich spells. I tried a few ecm's, map's and probed all voltages looking in my Ford(Helm) shop manual, and Charles O. Probst's book on Ford Fuel Injection. Voltages all ok for comparable events at sensors....go figure..any takers??? Thanks, Bruce T
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